Guitar overdrive pedals? effects loop?

Saul

2009-12-29 10:03:55 UTC

Ok, I'll try and break it down for you.

To change how your distortion saturates, you want to boost your signal before distortion (pre-distortion EQ). To change how it sounds (voicing), you want to mess with it after distortion (post-distortion EQ). In your case, you want to push it a little harder, but don't want to change how it sounds. You therefore want pre-distortion EQ.

In general, an overdrive boosts your mids, and this gives you more crunch. The more you boost the more pronounced this is... I'm sure you're aware that more boosting means you'll be less able to play more complex chords, you can easily become limited to power chords and single-note leads/riffs when you heavily boost your signal. It does depend on what you're boosting, though, too... pedals have less headroom than an amp will, and an amp will tend to be able to take more boosting and retain clarity vs your normal distortion pedal...

So when you're saying "overdrive", what you basically mean is a pedal that boosts your mids. You can do this with an EQ pedal, although it does take a bit of tweaking, and you may prefer the simplicity and tone of a standalone pedal. I love EQ, I think its good times for all, but if you don't want to change the tone of your distortion then you might just want to skip it and pick a pedal.

I've played through the Zakk Wylde Overdrive and think that its a hell of a pedal... its got a lot of versatility, can go all the way up to a pretty crunchy breakup (not metal, but tube screamer-ish, which is of course what all of these overdrive pedals are emulating, if not directly based off of) if you so wanted.

When people say that overdrive pedals are good for tube amps, of course they're right... tube amps tend to sound very good when you push them pretty hard. What people are not right about is solid state amps not sounding good when pushed hard.... it can really go both ways.... it has to do more with design than just tubes vs transistors. The Marshall MG series, for instance, is a line of amps that do sound pretty good when you push them moderately hard, ie with a nice fat middy tone. My buddy does it with his active pickups, and he gets a great thrash tone!

Anyhoo, I solidly recommend the Zakk Wylde Overdrive. You can try other pedals of course, but I think you're on the right track. The Sparkledrive is a pretty decent pedal too. The key here is to keep enough of your lower mids that you don't compromise your chunk, and that's something that the Tubescreamer takes out of the picture (in my humble opinion).

Remember that you can always lower the bass side of your pickups to reduce any farty noises, as well as use your tone knobs on the OD pedal as well. In general you want to cut your bass before distortion - this will let you boost it afterwards safely, have a better crunch, and still have good clarity and articulation.

When you boost your mids before distortion you may end up wanting to cut them after distortion - this is what Dimebag did with two EQ pedals. So keep in mind that you may want to fiddle with your amp's mid EQ knob when using your OD pedal.

I'm sorry, I think I lost concentration halfway through writing this answer and I can't seem to get it back. I hope this has made sense....

The fx loop goes between your preamp and your power amp. You put effects there when you want them to be heard clearly. This is the best place for things like modulation (chorus, flanger, etc), delay/echo/reverb, exciters (BBE Sonic Maximizer etc), and EQ if you want to exert some finer control over your tone (like cut out some of the flab without drastically changing how your tone sounds). Remember that you get your amp's distortion from your preamp, the preamp is the "color"... so any effects that go into the preamp will be a little muddied up. It may not be an issue for you, it certainly isn't for me 95% of the time, but if you want the clearest, most obvious sound from an effect, in general you'll want to place it in the fx loop.

Major caveat: no gain or distortion in the fx loop! You want nothing that boosts your signal significantly. I've put octave pedals and the like in there no problem, but as soon as I've put anything like distortion, solo boosts, overdrive, or even boosted certain frequencies with EQ too much its instant feedback and poo sounds (uhhh.... technical term).

Again, I love EQ. If you do end up using an EQ pedal, you want a "frowney face" before distortion, and for rock/metal, a "smiley face" afterwards.... meaning you boost your mids and cut your bass and treble before distortion, and do the opposite afterwards.

If you're looking for specific frequencies, before distortion boosting 800-1khz is a good place to start (say +3 to +9 db), cutting steeply below 150 hz, and cutting above 3-5 khz aggressively as well. After distortion boosting around 3 khz increases your "attack", but keep it low, ie +1 to +3 db. Cutting a few db around 300 hz and possibly also around 600-8

gtarczar

2009-12-29 09:47:29 UTC

I totally understand where you are coming from. You want to give you amps natural distortion a bit of a boost with maybe a little more edge to it. This can be accomplished by any OD/dist. pedal. Keep in mind that overdrive and distortion are essentially the same thing when it comes to pedals. Unless you have a tube powered overdrive pedal, they both accomplish the same function by using solid state circuitry to simulate the "overdrive" of a preamp tube. Some use higher amounts of gain than others and these are usually referred to as distortion pedals.

Since you are looking just to supplement your existing distortion than you need not spend a whole bunch of money to do so. By using a very basic overdrive or distortion pedal with the volume boosted on it and the overdrive/distortion level turned down you can set it to be essentially a volume boost with a bit more of an edge to it. By using the tone control you can further adjust the overall sound of the boost, maybe adding a bit more high end for leads.

The effects loop of the amp works by taking the entire signal from the preamp section, which is the initial gain stage (overdrive/distortion) and the E.Q. section, and running that signal through your effects. It then returns to the amp right before the final volume stage. This makes your effects literally part of the amps circuitry. By using the much stronger signal from your preamp section, as opposed to the relatively weak signal from the guitar to drive the effects, your effects don't have to work near as hard to produce a much better sound. Since the effects don't have to work as hard it generally makes them a lot quieter in terms of excess noise added to the signal.

Most people generally agree that their effects sound much better this way with the exception of wah pedals, which should be run between the guitar and amps input.

Since you are not wanting to dramatically alter the sound of your amp I would recommend trying the effects loop since that will only add a bit of drive after the initial gain stage of the amp. You can also use an E.Q. pedal, as you mention, to slightly boost the overall signal and give a bit more definition to specific frequencies. Just boost the volume on the E.Q. and add a bit of high while taking out some mids (or whatever your ear likes). Another way to do this is by using a compressor pedal. A compressor will add sustain and volume without affecting your tone dramatically the way an overdrive or E.Q. can.

In the future you may want to add some more effects to your set up (if your amp does not already have them) and there is a standard order to how they should be set up. Starting with the guitar you would go into a wah pedal than into the amps input. Then from the effects loop into any preamp style device like compressor, overdrive/distortion. Next in the chain would be an E.Q. After that would be any modulation effects like chorus or flanger. Last in the chain would be delay effects like echo or reverb. If you use a volume pedal than it would come right before the echo. The signal then goes back into the amp via the effects return.

I am sorry that this answer is so long but I figured you would want a thorough understanding of these matters, good luck.

foody

2016-10-29 07:01:27 UTC

Zakk Wylde Overdrive Pedal

Diane

2016-03-14 05:58:02 UTC

I would stick the wah in the very front, then the distortion pedals, then the compressor. Some people may recommend putting the compressor in front of the distortion pedals (in front or behind the wah is your decision), however, I like the compressor behind the distortion pedals. It allows me to use the guitar's volume control to adjust the amount of distortion I'm getting... kind of like a cranked tube amp. None of those effects belong in the effects loop. The effects loop is mainly for time based effects that need to go after all of your gain stages, like reverbs, delays, phasers, etc. Those 4 pedals you mention are just filters and volume based effects. You cannot create an effects loop without serious modification to your amplifier. If you're getting a muddy sound, then you need to tweak the settings of your pedals, amp, and guitar. An effects loop wouldn't help your situation whatsoever.

Adam D

2009-12-29 12:07:08 UTC

Ok, a couple guys wrote you novels and they're probably loaded with good advice... but I'll have to write you one too.

What I recommend is to have a good EQ pedal. It makes the most difference, unless you have an amp, like a Mesa MkIV that already has an onboard 5 band EQ. THERE IS ONLY 1 EQ PEDAL I CAN RECOMMEND YOU!!!! The Maxxon 10 Band EQ. Why? Because it's built like a tank, WILL NOT change your tone, until you move the sliders... BUT, it has an added GAIN slider, which will add just enough gain for you to boost your signal... and you'll use it on every amp you own from here to eternity.

What you want is more output. You can obtain this through higher output pickups. I've never played the type you have installed in your guitar, but I'm not sure if they're official EMG's or another type. I suggest getting EMG 81/85 combo, or some Passive Dimarzio pickups. Personally, I hate the Active pickups, like EMG because they take the life out of the guitar. I just bought an expensive pair of PRS pickups that are rare and are highly rated. Man they sound great... BUT, they don't have enough output, so I can't use them. Sucks for me. Dimarzio high output pickups, like the Tone Zone, or Super Distortion 3 are really good.

Now, for Distortion/OD pedals. I use them to boost my signal. I have a Modified Boss MT-2 (metal zone) by the Whizzer, which I use to ONLY add low end depth to my sound. I don't add any of the gain. I also run an Ibanez TS-9+, which I use for a lead boost. The idea for an overdrive pedal is to send your TUBE amp into.. well, overdrive. See, a 100 watt tube amp is a $hit ton louder than a 100 watt solid state amp. The tube amps are often too loud for practice, BUT, you have to turn it loud to get that rich, creamy distortion sound. That's where the OD or Tubescreamer came into play. It helps overload those tubes so you can obtain that sweet tone.

Now, for a Solid State amp, they're actually better sounding when they are turned halfway or less. The higher you turn them up, the more signal breakup you'll get, which will effect sustain, and stuff like that (which is why you see 300 watt solid state amps). Most pedals are going to change your tone a little bit. The Maxxon OD-808 or Ibanez TS-9 don't change them too much. They just add a little distortion to boost your signal, rather than a full on distortion pedal, which is generally used to play over an amp's clean channel.

Again, I would just get the MXR 10 Band EQ. It'll add your gain, but also allow you to fine tune your tone, and you'll find that it makes a huge difference in sound. If you still need more for solo's, you can get an OD pedal.

NOW for that effects loop. You'll want your EQ's that boost your gain, gain, OD, distortion and wah effects in front of your amp, like how you're doing it now. All your modulation effects, like standard EQ, Reverb, phaser, tremolo, chorus, flanger, etc.. should go in the effects loop, so their signals aren't affected by what is in front of your amp. HOWEVER, this is only the standard way of doing it. Mess around with different combination's and see if they make a difference. I personally like my delay in front of my amp, because it distorts every note, which (when set right) gives me a cool effect when I mute the strings and play simple arpeggios.

I run all my effects in front of my amp, because my effects loop is broken, so it's not a huge deal. Some guys like the distortion going through the effects loop... meh, too each his own. This is why we try and either fail and try something else, or we try and find out that we like what we've created.

-MY GEAR-

Guitars:

Schecter C-1 Exotic with Dimarzio Tone Zone/Evolution combo pickups

Schecter C-1+ (Had Seymour Duncan JB/Jazz combo, but last night put in a PRS Dragon II in the bridge)

1985 Fender Strat (swapped out with EMG David Gilmour setup - amazing tone for EMG)

PRS Swamp Ash Special (project guitar, hopefully I can put in the PRS 57/08's)

Amps:

Main amp - Mesa Boogie MkIV (the ultimate 80's/90's metal tube amp)

Marshall ts100

Line 6 POD rackmount amp.

Cabs for the Mesa:

2x12 Mesa rectifier with v30's

4x12 Diezel

--- Nice balance of the 2x12's on bottom for low end, and the Diezel does everything else.

Effects:

Ibanez TS-9+

Modified Boss MT-2

Modified Boss DS-1

Crybaby Wah

Ibanez delay pedal

Line 6 Echo Park

MXR 10 band EQ, used for the Marshall (the second most important effect you can own)

Modified TR-2 Tremolo by Keeley

Old Boss Flanger

Boss Super Shifter

EH Big Muff - crappy, gave it to bass my player. He hated it too.

ISP Decimator (The MOST important effect you can have when running high gain amps. It also won't change your tone like other Noise suppressors.)

I can't tell you how many effects I've owned over the years. These are good ones. There are probably some boutique effects that some people say are better, and who knows, they may be right. But after 15 years of playing, searching, spending money I don't have... I have finally settled on these. Don't get me wrong. I'd like a $700 analog delay pedal too, or a $4400 Diezel amp, or a PRS guitar that I didn't have to piece together... but what I do know, is that I REALLY wish I had someone tell me about this stuff.

2009-12-29 08:17:23 UTC

try any of digitech, and i know u hate hearing this, but go to the local guitar center or w/e u hav, and check em out for urself. u might b able to bring ur amp in.