Do I need lessons?

Question

Okay, here's the deal.

I understand quite a bit about music, but most of it is academic rather than practical. If you've been in the Performing Arts section here for a while you've seen me demonstrate that knowledge. Sometimes I have to look something up if I don't remember it offhand, but most of it I know already (I don't answer a question if I'm not sure of the answer, I don't want to mislead someone who is really trying to learn by giving them a BS response).

My issue is I can play something off the top of my head and explain what I did afterward, but I don't think about what the notes I'm playing are while I'm playing it. I've tried planning out what I want to play in advance, but it usually sounds terrible. I have much better results when I wing it and figure out what key and scale I'm using when I get stuck on a part.

Is that normal for a guitarist to do, or do I approach it weird because I'm mostly self-taught?

Another thing that makes it difficult for me is the style of music I play doesn't lend itself well to being easily understood theory-wise. I use a lot of two note intervals rather than harmonic triads, which means that a lot of what I play doesn't fit firmly in any particular key. Since I play in Drop D and use my open low string as a pedal tone a lot of the time, I usually just work with stuff that fits into D or D minor to make it a little easier on myself.

Basically, how much would lessons benefit me with the way I play?

Answer 1

This is a rather complex issue and, as such, needs a more complex answer than just, "do what works for you". I will relate a bit of my journey to help explain.

I started playing at 10 years old and advanced very quickly. By the time I was in middle school I was playing in bands and played many parties etc. By the time I was in high school I had been playing semi professionally in local bands.

I initially had a few lessons when I started but relied mainly on my ear and picking up ideas from watching other players. I got along very well for many years with what I now understand was a limited musical vocabulary. I had decided to take the high school guitar class just for fun and was informed by the teacher on the first day that I was already a much better player than he was. At this point I started to realize that I did have a real talent for this (playing guitar) and that I wanted to do this for a living. Even though I did take that guitar class and helped tutor other students I began to feel frustrated with the lack of a challenge musically at that level.

I decided to pursue a higher level of music education and graduated high school a year early to go to the local community college and study music, among other things. I studied harmony and theory, musicianship, history of music, composition, and piano. This radically expanded my concept of music and greatly improved my musical vocabulary. The problem was that, like you, much of this knowledge that was in my head was not readily translating into what I played. I was stuck with the same set of chops and licks and patterns that I had relied on for so many years. I had a wealth of knowledge and no idea how to actually use it.

At this time I decided to take guitar lessons with a local instructor who was once featured in guitar player magazine. This guy had incredible technique and like myself was rock oriented. He had started on Suzuki violin as a child and was definitely a prodigy. One of the things that he helped me do was to tap into the knowledge in my head and help me translate it into my hands. My technique and ability expanded tremendously. I was beginning to be able to play some of what was in my head and was able to restructure my existing abilities to better reflect my actual knowledge.

I could have stopped there and that would have been great. My ability had improved 10 fold and the creative juices were again flowing! All through this journey I had been doing some basic recording of songs etc. but at this point I started to do this more and more and began to actually hear the difference in my playing and decided again that I wanted to challenge myself even more.

I auditioned for Guitar Institute of Technology in Los Angeles. I half expected to be turned down but much to my surprise I was accepted for the following spring semester! So off to Hollywood I went! While attending G.I.T. I was exposed to so many top notch players and instructors that my technique and ability grew over 100 fold. Because I had already had a lot of college level theory, harmony, etc. I was able to by-pass several of the basic musicianship classes and start studying immediately with the likes of Frank Gambale, Don Mock, Joe Pass, Howard Roberts and so many more. I got the chance to meet and jam with people like Steve Vai, Eric Johnson, Billy Sheehan and classmate Paul Gilbert. None of this would have ever been possible if I had not decided to take that step and take lessons with other players who had a greater knowledge than myself. Taking lessons helped open my mind and my technique to whole worlds of possibilities that I never would have considered.

Of course part of this adventure involved delving heavily into the mechanics of playing. We studied scales, arpeggios, modes, chord construction, single note playing, and a myriad of other advanced techniques. I already knew a lot about all of this stuff and had began to tap into that potential, but being at G.I.T. supercharged those studies.

Armed with a metronome I began to completely devour the material that was given to us. (we HAD to use a metronome and keep track or our tempos and progress) This really broke down the barriers of what was in my mind and how to execute what I was hearing in my head and all around me

. This was during the mid eighties (class of 85-86) so shred was king, neo classical was everywhere and the guitar was enjoying a certain stylistic revival. Having incredible chops was everything and we all had it in spades.

After graduating and returning back home, I played in many bands all over the west coast and began teaching. The abilities I had gained were in high demand and I made a good living playing and teaching. Then along came grunge and the 90s backlash against the previous generation of metal and pyro-technics. No longer was shred king (although it was still popular in guitar circles). Kids were more interested in bands like Nirvana, and all of the Seattle scene grunge, post grunge genres. Emo was coming in and people were talking about "Goth" and these darker elements that relied more on tone and feel than technique and ability. I had to adapt to the new times. I began going back to my roots and re-exploring the chops, and riffs, and the music that I started out with and it was like going full circle. In many ways I had to "unlearn" a lot of what I had began to rely on so heavily! I stopped doing the two and three octave sweep arpeggios (I still whip em out once in a while!) But I really had to re-examine my playing and "evolve". Interestingly enough, the "old" knowledge and the "new" knowledge came to co-exist beautifully! By going back and exploring the roots I was able to gain back a certain feel and incorporate a whole new set of concepts within the older framework. This was an exponential paradigm shift in my thinking! I went back to the local community college and played in the concert jazz band. I studied with those players and began to see how old and new are really just facets of the same big picture! I had matured as a player and was able to embrace technique and feel and explore the nuances within it. This NEVER would have happened if I had just stayed in my comfort zone and did not push myself to explore this big wide musical world with other instructors, educators, players and even students!



I now play in a Progressive rock band (QUASAR) and I still teach and perform on a regular basis. Because of my studies and musical education I have been lucky enough t earn a (modest) living doing what I love to do, play guitar! I hope this gives you some insight and help you make a decision to pursue lessons. The journey awaits my friend!

Answer 2

I'll venture in a little, as I can relate so much to what you say. Cutting to the chase, I suspect you would have a hard time finding a teacher with both the broad skills needed and the ability to accurately relate to what you can already do, which I suspect is considerable. In some settings, you would be teaching the teacher.



Like you and Tony B, my stuff is a patch-work quilt of things acquired over the years, with each bit becoming integrated into the whole cloth that is my "style" and that worked for me to play most of what I wanted to play. If I was quite a bit younger, still gigging, I likely would seek out some help for more technique I never got down well, like maybe slide guitar, or playing tripletts in longer chains and faster. Then there are scales I enjoy hearing but don't know how to execute well, as the pattern isn't in me. So that's a technique-centered approach.



Exposure to something that would never have occurred to me would be good. Kinda like when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail? Some new tools, and bazinga. Not necessary, however, to go out and buy every possible tool. That's about as theory-centered as I'd go.



Thanks for a thought-provoking question, 'C.

Answer 3

I've mentioned before that I think some people have an obsession with "scales", "modes" etc. and seem to want to limit what they are going to play before they even get near a guitar. There are people who want to know what scale(s) they can use with this sequence, is it okay to use that scale? Can the use two different scales in the same solo? The idea of just playing, just trying out ideas doesn't seem to occur to them. They want to play the "best" scales on the "best" guitar, through the "best" amp, with the "best" settings.



I'm not someone who subscribes to the view that formally trained musicians can't improvise or be "creative" but I think it's what you do with your knowledge that matters. Jimi Hendrix, Peter Green and Eric Clapton weren't schooled musicians - they got where they did partly through talent but also by using their ears and playing what they thought sounded good. Not playing what some "theory" told them to play.



It finally dawned on me a few years ago that I am not a good "improvising" guitarist. I can play some sort of solo over most basic sequences; mostly I sound "okay" but definitely no more than that. Now I work out the main parts of what I'm going to play beforehand. I do this on the guitar by actually playing along to the backing though. I don't think in terms of scales although a lot of what I play is based on either the major scale or the "blues" scale, with notes added or taken away according to what sounds good to me. I leave room for some improvisiation but I know more or less what I'm going to do before I play the "finished" part. Like you, I could work out afterwards what I had played but I have no idea as I am actually playing.



I'm self-taught too and my knowledge of music developed as I learnt to play the guitar - I never thought of understanding root notes and inversions or of knowing the difference between a seventh chord and a major seventh chord as something separate to actually being able to play guitar. I guess that meant that I never tried to learn more than I felt I needed to know to play. Now I wish I had. I wish I knew more about music. I wish I'd spent more time on the things I found difficult rather than playing something else instead! I've never had lessons and sometimes I wish I had - I believe that any player, no matter how good, can benefit from lessons from a good teacher. I am often appalled at just how many things I can't do on guitar. But, I can play well enough for what I really want/need to do and I manage to produce music that sounds good to me. That's all it's about I think.



I think the way of playing you describe is what most players do and that if you are happy with it, if it sounds good to you, that's the most important thing. If you feel there is some serious lack, either in your knowledge or your playing then maybe lessons are the way to go.

Answer 4

Hello, there friend!

Have you been drinking the kool-aid? LOL

I think you've been here too long and are getting freaked out by all the kids wanting to know theory or should they know theory, and what are the notes of this scale or that scale? and if you are missing something important.

I think you have probably heard one or two of my youtubes by now.....

And you can be the judge of whether my solos are decent enough....



What I know of theory could fit on the head of a pin. All I know is a few box patterns for a few scale modes and where the notes on the fretboard are and how they link together up and down the strings and frets.



That and lots of practice and lots of listening to great guitarists for years and trying to learn what they played and trying to emulate it in some fashion.

That and a fairly "musical" mind.

Almost all my solos are improvised and are never the same. Some are complete failures. Some work out great. The majority of the recordings I have are the result of many takes in which mistakes were made and ideas were formed and elaborated upon.

Of course, playing live in front of a crowd where you only have one shot at it is the truest test.

Nowadays, I'm very rusty and have forgotten a lot of what I used to know, but some of my technique has improved with age. But when I was active as a performing musician, I was pretty well honed in the fire.



Adrenaline helps a lot! It can really lend you a motivation and skill you didn't even know you had in you.



Now, I know you are a metal guy....and that could be part of your problem. Metal has it's own challenges as far as how to construct a solo to. I would be an awful metal player. I know very little of tapping and pinch harmonics and sweep picking and all that stuff.

I'm more of a Ritchie Blackmore type player(since he was my template as a teen and I listened to and practiced that style religiously)

John Petrucci I will never be.

Or Dimebag or King or Wylde.



One suggestion I would have for you is to try going back to the roots of rock guitar and checking out and trying to learn what some of the guitar legends of the 70's did. Go back to standard tuning and learn some old style "Heavy Metal" or "Classic Rock"



but learning to solo involves a knowledge of a few patterns and scales and then lots of self discovery until you don't try to "write" a solo before you play it, but feel the music and with the familiarity of doing all that solo noodling, things will just come out of you.

I cannot express HOW I do what I do. It just kind of happens.

Do try and slow down a bit and don't try to fire off "amazing" solos. Instead, try to play a bit slower and more musically.....(again...I know that metal is hard to play slowly. LOL)



The odd timings and speed of metal doesn't lend itself to really feeling a melody of the song and improvising off of it. That to me is the key to soloing. Working off the melody and harmony and fitting within it and elaborating upon it.

Trying combinations of triplets, two note intervals, long single notes and bends, etc, all mixed together.

Two note intervals sounds a lot like pentatonics....Which you may have learned about me, I despise, and believe hampers a lot of young players trying to learn guitar.



but learning to solo is really just a lot of practice playing to backing tracks like Tony said OR best yet, jamming with a friend. That is how I got really good at it. Me and a friend of mine would just have our guitars and would play a simple repetitive rhythm lick, like the long ending of "Freebird". Or the "Comfortably Numb" riff. We would pick a minor scale riff and a major/blues scale riff and then each one we'd play for 20 minutes minimum and trade off rhythm and leads.



That's how you experiment and find out what works and what doesn't. Practicing a certain type of lick or arpeggio...things of that nature.



Blah blah blah....you get the idea....



But only you can determine if you need "lessons" All I know is that taking two months from a good teacher on how to solo REALLY helped me transform after 6-7 years of being self taught.



A Mikey likes to say, get lessons from a professional if you really want to learn guitar. As an adult, you can specify what you want to learn. And if the teacher doesn't know that, find another teacher. Make him show you what you want to know, and don't let him force his own curriculum on you. He works for YOU.



Cheers